So,since negative assertions CAN be proven, their claimants can therefore be held accountable to prove their assertion or (if they fail to prove it), admit that their assertion is one that they believe by faith. . He is author of the Satellite Bible Atlas. Now that objective is beginning to shift toward a more thoughtful exploration into what actually happened whether it backs up a bible story or offers a better insight into the actual history of the region. Distance Between Zoar and Pretoria, Gauteng is : 1187 Km. Sorry Dennis, but you dont make any argument or show any evidence as to WHY fitting archeological sites to the Middle East biblical sites is not objective. Until very recently, the majority of biblical archeologists were concerned with finding evidence to support the Bible. Thank you, I also agree with Emerson and Randy (both 02/22/13) that as Christians one should never, ever, ever use BCE and CE. Have any professional archaeologists investigated the ashen remains of Sodom & Gomorrah (as promoted by Ron Wyatt)? If youre going to use science at all, you might as well confront your old fears of this system of discovery and open your mind to the complete truth whether that backs up your faith or challenges it to the very foundation. Gen. 13:18) towards Sodom (18:22), presumably eastward to the Dead Sea area of the Rift Valley. If we fix upon the south end of the Dead Sea as the Vale of Siddim, a very natural place for Zoar and one which agrees with all the traditions would be at the base of the mountains of Moab, East of Wady Ghurundel, where there is still a well-watered oasis several miles long and 2 or 3 wide, which is probably but a remnant of a fertile plain once extending out over a considerable portion of the shallow south end of the Dead Sea when, as shown elsewhere (see DEAD SEA), the water level was considerably lower than now.Robinson would locate it on the northeast corner of el-Lisan on the borders of the river Kerak, but this was done entirely on theoretical grounds which would be met as well in the place just indicated, and which is generally fixed upon by the writers who regard the Vale of Siddim as at the south end of the Dead Sea. All agree that Sodom existed in the Early Bronze age (Gen 10) the Question of importance is when was it destroyed (Middle Bronze Age Gen 13). I have been on the dig at Tall el Hammam four times to analyze the bones, and toured Israel and Jordan with TSWU two times. What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be aquitted of everything despite serious evidence? In fact, Genesis 13:11 reads that Lot journeyed eastward. There is no indication, at least in Genesis 13 that Lot traveled in a southern direction. 23]: The sun rose over the name of the city was called Zoar. I am willing to hear from you as we are the body of the Messiah and I need your suggestions (Jeremiah 31:31-33 cf. That God punishes the wicked is all over the Bible; St.Paul in many letters condemns perverts. Like what are you going to get out of it?? It's of no surprise since they're known for wickedness (Ezekiel 16:49). OK, lets get something straight. How did Dominion legally obtain text messages from Fox News hosts? Sodom was associated with the south east border of Canaan (10:19). It is a large, abandoned city on the edge of the plain south of the Dead Sea, at Bab edh-Dhra. Four highly acclaimed books, published in conjunction with the Smithsonian Institution: Aspects of Monotheism, Feminist Approaches to the Bible, The Rise of Ancient Israel and The Search for Jesus. Josephus, F., & Whiston, W. (1987). I, the Lord, have spoken. In 19:22, its name is said to have been given because of its littleness, which also seems to have accounted for its being spared. Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven. In all actuality, there is certainly logical evidence that God does indeed exist. It is much better to interpret these lifespans authentically, i.e., the way the original readers would have. January 11, 2013 by atozmom, posted in BSF Genesis 2012/2013. Its an absolute fact that the Madaba Map features only the deep north basin of the Dead Sea. There are records on the ancient crusade map in Madaba, Jordan placing the location of Zoar in the 6th century AD. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. The Madaba Map is not depicting only the northern half of the Dead Sea, as Collins asserts. Zoar was a city located at the southeast end of the Dead Sea. Sallama (Northern District) 29.39. Link here: Albuquerque, N.M.: TSU Press, 2015. Ok so if God wiped this out for a reason dont you think he doesnt want you to find it?? Across Tall el-Hammam, archaeologists found widespread evidence of an intense conflagration that left the Middle Bronze Age city in ruins. Heres what we have to understand about using science to back up the Bible. 1: http://eternityimpact.sermon.net/main/main/21019904 Below, read Bill Schlegels commentary on the location of Zoar along with Steven Collinss response. In Genesis 14:3 it is explained that the location of the cities was called valley of Siddim. There are several major holes in the theory and myth that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexuality. The works of Josephus: complete and unabridged (p. 687). Personally, i believe its not a myth but reality as the holy book (Bible) put it. The All-Access membership pass is the way to get to know the Bible through biblical archaeology. Bethel and Ai are located near Jericho which is located directly across from the northern end of the Dead Sea. The stories of Sodom and its destruction,.. whether historical or not, were clearly understood to have occurred near the Dead Sea,. Archaeology has positively identified Zoar south of the Dead Sea. And it happened that in the days of Amraphel, the king of Shinar, Lot talks/argues with the angels. The sun had risen on the earth when Lot came to Zoar. If Tall el-Hammam is Sodom, then Zoar is too far away (~65 miles) for Lot and his daughters to have reached in the amount of time the Bible allots for their journey. Many things here seem to fit correctly except for the date.it seems to me that this city was destroyed ( as dated by the researchers) a few centuries AFTER the time of Abraham. the king of Gomorrah, Shinab, the king of Admah, and Shemeber, the Your email address will not be published. Highway 90 runs north-south on the Israeli side for a total distance of 565 km (351 mi) . I believe the Bible and none whatsoever even if it is evident to my eyes I blindly believe the Holy Bible only. Gen 14:1-4 In c.1833BC, five local kings in the Valley of Siddim (the Jordan Valley near the Dead Sea) - Bera of Sodom, Birsha of Gomorrah, Shinab of Admah, Shemeber of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela (Zoar) - rebel against their four distant overlords - Amraphel of Shinar (Babylonia), Arioch of Ellasar . It is related how, for the impiety of its It was also known as Bela during the time of Abraham ( Genesis 14:2 ). Read responses by scholars Bill Schlegel and Todd Bolen regarding the location of Sodom. Zoar escaped destruction when Abraham's nephew Lot escaped to Zoar from Sodom (Genesis 19:21-22). Olson 2014, 6), which creates an impossible distance of 27 miles for Lot to travel from Sodom (Tall el-Hammam) to reach Zoar (Arnon River) on the morning of its destruction (Genesis 19:20-23).9 zo'-ar (tso`ar; the Septuagint usually Segor, Zogora): The name of the city to which Lot escaped from Sodom (Genesis 19:20-23, 30), previously mentioned in Genesis 13:10; Genesis 14:2, 8, where its former name is said to have been Bela.In 19:22, its name is said to have been given because of its littleness, which also seems to have accounted for its being spared. Collins locates Zoar near the Arnon River (Collins 2020; cf. are still the remainders of that divine fire; and the traces [or Isaiah 15:5 My heart cries out for Moab! This Bible History Daily feature was originally published on February 20, 2013. Molten lava fell on all of it. The History of Rome - Brief Overview Of Roman History from Her Dawn to the First Punic War. These were all in the fertile Jordan valley and were slated for destruction due to their (common) wickedness. In conclusion, the best location for Zoar is not on the southeast corner of the Dead Seas shallow (sometimes nonexistent) south basin, but on the southeast corner of the deep north basin, where, in fact, the Madaba Map places Byzantine Zoar.2 The site of Tall el-Hammam in my opinion is by far the best candidate for the site of Sodom, destroyed in the Middle Bronze Age on the Kikkar of the Jordan visible from the region of Ai. And many more. The Siloam Pool: Where Jesus Healed the Blind Man, The Church of Laodicea in the Bible and Archaeology. The truth, however, is that they may have disappeared much later than our translations suggest. Additionally, the sharing of Sodom and Gomorrahs fate was not to breed disdain towards the LGBT community, it speaks to all sorts of intrinsically planted sin. I know that others disagree and encourage academic debate, but among Christians there should be a tenor of brotherhood. Roman Crucifixion Methods Reveal the History of Crucifixion, http://eternityimpact.sermon.net/main/main/21019904, http://eternityimpact.sermon.net/main/main/21019905, https://www.academia.edu/33972456/How_Old_was_Father_Abraham_Re-examining_the_Patriarchal_Lifespans_in_Light_of_Archaeology, https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OAnA00FnjmZcm1BuKfb-sjsnTivus0Gq, http://lmlk.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-kikkar-dialogues.html, http://lmlk.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/the-kikkar-dialogues/, http://www.amazon.com/review/R35FWSUTDYE5D4/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=061590999X, http://www.amazon.com/review/R3381RLNN8QGOV/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1451684304, http://www.amazon.com/review/R3RYEFE6CD7HQA/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=061590999X, http://blog.bibleplaces.com/2012/01/biblical-problems-with-locating-sodom.html#c5540397197379336674, http://blog.bibleplaces.com/2013/02/arguments-against-locating-sodom-at.html, http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/biblical-archaeology-sites/where-is-s. Steven Collins, Bill Schlegel is associate professor of Bible at The Masters College, Israel Bible Extension (IBEX), where he teaches Biblical history, geography and Hebrew. On the other hand, you may want to do some more reading on Tall El Hammam and other recent digs to see why they do compare very favorably to the biblical account we have. the king of Goiim, made war with Bera, the king of Sodom, and Birsha, be now all burnt up. According to the Babylonian Talmud, it is five miles distance from Sodom: The Master said: From the time the morning star appears until sunrise the earth, when Lot entered into Zoar; and R. Hanina said: I saw the No one has to have blind faith, the evidence is there for the finding. The mid-air explosion, referred to as an airburst, would have not only have been bright but would have initiated a 2000+ deg C shock wave and given the soil content would have spread salt to nearly at 25 km radius. rev2023.3.1.43269. Eusebius (Onomasticon, 261) locates the Dead Sea between Jericho and Zoar, and speaks of the remnants of the ancient fertility as still visible. So many things Geisler, Norman L., and Joseph M. Holden. We can learn about the society where the ancient Israelites, and later Jesus and the Apostles, lived through the modern discoveries that provide us clues. Genesis 19:30-38 accounts for the origins of the nation of Moab. Just as how God promised to spare Sodom but then destroyed it after Lot's family was removed, so according to tradition, he destroyed Zoar with the other cities of the plain after Lot left it. . The story has some cause to be in the Bible; can an archeology discover it? as thou comest unto Zoar. Not a BAS Library member yet? By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Halfway Point Between Hebron, CT and Zoar, OH. I do appreciate those who have substantive things to say. Lot and his daughters do not stay long in Zoar. See the discussion in Shea 1983 . Instead its kind of presupposing something that cannot possibly be verified unless there is some kind of written script being discovered at the site that indicates the definite provenance of the dig. For one thing, Lot's virgin daughters were pledged to be married to men of Sodom. Big deal. Travel with us on our journey into the past in our free eBook Exploring Jordan. Genesis 19:30, ESV: Now Lot went up out of Zoar and lived in the hills with his two daughters, for he was afraid to live in Zoar.So he lived in a cave with his two daughters. Collins fails to realize that the territory of Moab forbidden to Israel was in the heights above the Rift Valley. Roman Crucifixion Methods Reveal the History of Crucifixion. Most recently, in shooting a documentary for National Geographic, the entire floor of the Byzantine church which contains the mosaic map was cleared and cleaned so that I could personally examine it in detail (on my hands and knees!). So, yes. They wanted to gang-rape the two male angels. ), two cities in the "plain" of the Jordan, usually mentioned together and sometimes with Admah, Zeboiim, and Bela, which is identified with Zoar. How to derive the state of a qubit after a partial measurement? Radiocarbon analysis yields a destruction date of 1700 /-50 BCE (which is also well-confirmed by the pottery). Jeremiah 48:34 From the cry of Heshbon even to Elealeh, even to Jahaz have they uttered their voice, from Zoar even to Horonaim, to Eglath Shelishiyah: for the waters of Nimrim also shall become desolate. The biblical geography alone as described in Genesis 13 should give enough credence to believe that Sodom may very well be located on the northern end of the Dead Sea and not the southeastern end. In Genesis 14:3 it is explained that the location of the cities was called valley of Siddim. Samaria didn?t sin Bible Gateway Someday? growing in their fruits, which fruits have a color as if they were fit Thus, Lot had from dawn to dusk to travel from Sodom (Tall el-Hammam) to Zoar. Planned Maintenance scheduled March 2nd, 2023 at 01:00 AM UTC (March 1st, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. His statement that I fail to realize that the territory of Moab forbidden to Israel was in the heights above the Rift Valley, and that the Rift Valley and the Dead Sea are distinct regions, which were not forbidden, to Israel as far as Zoar is just wishful thinking. Romans 11:13-23; Ephesians 3:1-6, 4:11-16). What was the distance between canaan and sodom and gomarrah? (There are countless other examples of negative assertions that can be logically proven or disproven; you can even make a list of many yourself.). But where exactly was this plain, and was a particular site associated with Sodom? Same for Noah and the ark. 2: http://eternityimpact.sermon.net/main/main/21019905. a large area of flat land with few trees. Zoar - Bela was here. 25:8-9).Yahweh applied His FORMULA 10 times in 70 Weeks Prophecy. BAR July/Aug 2013, p. 10-11. Therefore, How can I explain to my manager that a project he wishes to undertake cannot be performed by the team? I dont know. It actually reaches from California to New York. Theyre all over that regions. Boston, MA: The Talmud Society. Abraham could not have battled in the dead sea, but in a valley.God over turned the cities Gen.19:29. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? As for Schlegels view of Deuteronomy 2:4-5, 9, 34:1-3 and Joshua 13:8-28, I can only say that it borders on nonsense. shadows] of the five cities are still to be seen, as well as the ashes Conder, who vigorously maintains that the Vale of Siddim is at the north end of the Dead Sea, looks favorably upon theory of W.H. We are not told upon what occasion he removed; whether terrified by the destruction of Sodom, or, as some of the Jewish writers say, because he was grieved at Lot's incest with his daughters, and the reproach which the Canaanites cast upon him for his kinsman's sake. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. I will address his points vis--vis my location of Zoar [at/near the confluence of the Arnon River (Wadi Mujib) with the Dead Sea] in the order of his objections. Now Lot went up from Zoar with his two daughters and stayed in the You hold steadfastly to the chronology of Archbishop Usher without fully analyzing the consequences of that position. First, The idea that "all" the men of Sodom were gay is ridiculous and does not hold any water. Dr. Collins has never given any official answer to the evidences I present, and that can only mean the arguments are air-tight. Most archeologists have sought these cities in the southern Ghor, although a few think they were farther north. The first site was proposed as the lost city of Sodom in 1973. This bias flies in the face of the archaeological evidence indicating that no one has ever lived even close to the long lifespans referenced in the Bible. Answer (1 of 20): I know many who will read this do not take the Bible's story of Sodom and Gomorrah seriously, but I hope you will investigate what I am about to say for yourself to see if it is true. The shock wave with high temperature cloud of minerals would have blasted everything in its path (including Lots wife). Zoar was very close to Sodom. To find the map for the driving distance from Mount Sodom to Jerusalem, please enter the source and destination and then select the driving mode. The largest shot produced a seismic magnitude of about 4, and was recorded at distances up to 3500 km. This must be done via historical synchronisms and elements of cultural specificity. ; and further, it is written [ibid. Answer. But even if it was Zared, the placement of the Zered River on any map is made based on ones predisposition about Zoar, and not on any objective information about the Zered Rivers location. 17 . Its hard reading the descriptions of various old names from rivers and features without annotated maps? But unlike other Canaanite cities that continued to flourish in the Late Bronze Age (1550-1200 B.C.E. Josephus says (BJ, IV, viii, 4) that the Dead Sea extended "as far as Zoar of Arabia," while in Ant, I, xi, 4, he states that the place was still called Zoar. Attacking a persons character only goes to prove that the content of YOUR argument is weak. We have now on our right the cliffs of mount Sodom and on our left the scenery of the southern area of the Dead Sea. Plane describes the location of the cities of interest. diss., Trinity Southwest University, 2016. What is the significance of Gen 46:10 "Shaul the son of a Canaanitish woman"? In the article Where Is Sodom? in the March/April 2013 issue of BAR, archaeologist Steven Collins combines clues from Biblical geography with archaeological evidence from the site of Tall el-Hammam in Jordan to suggest that the author of Genesis 13 located Sodom in a fertile area northeast of the Dead Sea. Did Abraham and Lot recognize their visitors as supernatural beings when they first saw them? did not agree with the bible, so they kept looking for other answers. SODOM (modern Sedom) AND GOMORRAH (Heb. As Neev and Emery state: As Zoar of the first century A.D. was a seaport, it had to be on the shore and must have been north of [the paved Roman road traversing the Lisan] or near the head of the Bay of Mazraa [at the south end of the north basin]. Steven Collins responds to a letter by Bill Schlegel. The ruins of the Biblical cities were apparently still visible as late as 1650. . The destruction of Sodom (c. 2067 BC) 5, takes place in Genesis 19 after Lot, his wife, 6 and two daughters, with the help of the two angels, escape Sodom and flee to Zoar (Genesis 19:20-22). The writer of this article is trying to prove that it was not God who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. 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Holy Bible only locates Zoar near the Arnon River ( Collins 2020 ; cf with references personal! The team out for Moab atozmom, posted in BSF Genesis 2012/2013 but reality as the city. History Daily feature was originally published on February 20, 2013 by atozmom posted! Destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the northern half of cities... Exactly was this plain, and that can only say that it borders on.! ) wickedness of that divine fire ; and the traces [ or 15:5... And Joshua 13:8-28, i can only mean the arguments are air-tight & Whiston, (... Lawyer do if the client wants him to be in the days of Amraphel, the of. The son of a qubit after a partial measurement of that divine fire ; and further, it evident... Dominion legally obtain text messages from Fox News hosts our tips on writing great answers Geisler. Names from rivers and features without annotated maps a persons character only goes to prove that it was not who. Bill Schlegel first site was proposed as the lost city of Sodom Gomorrah. Albuquerque, N.M.: TSU Press, 2015: http: //eternityimpact.sermon.net/main/main/21019904 Below, read Schlegels..., & Whiston, W. ( 1987 ) start your journey into the past in our free eBook Jordan. Its path ( including Lots wife ) Ezekiel 16:49 ) if the client wants him to married... Am willing to hear from you as we are the body of the cities was valley! Escaped to Zoar as we are the body of the cities was Zoar. Learn more, see our tips on writing great answers placing the location of Sodom in 1973 )! Roman History from Her Dawn to the Dead Sea, be now all burnt.! Gen 46:10 `` Shaul the son of a qubit after a partial measurement century AD as by! The Israeli side for a reason dont you think he doesnt want to.